ISKCON’s openly Gay Vaishnavas…and how they are changing one of the world’s largest Hindu spiritual orders.
Udayan
Raghav sounded ecstatic as I talked to him on the phone. He’d just got a new job as a software professional in his hometown Ahmedabad. It meant a new independence for him. For his life has been quite an uphill battle with prejudices and harassment till now.
When Raghav first came out to his family at age 17, he was promptly taken to Dr. Mrugesh Vaishnav, a prominent psychiatrist in Mumbai. There he was given shock therapy to his genitals and treated for schizophrenia. He was repeatedly given injections of Pentothal, an anaesthetic, which ultimately left him in severe depression. “It was all so painful”, he says as he recalls those days of horror.
Things changed for the better once he moved to Nasik to study engineering. Here he heard about the International Society for Krishna Consciousness or ISKCON. Being a religious Hindu since childhood, Raghav was soon attracted by the society’s devotion to Krishna and service to mankind. However, his being openly gay soon became a bone of contention within the community. Though he had accepted brahmacharya or celibacy, he felt like an outcast. That’s when he decided to leave Nasik and move to Mathura, the birthplace of Krishna, and one of the holiest places for Vaishnavas.
There he became a part of Gaudya Vaishnavas, headed by Narayan Maharaj, a sect different from ISKCON, which has always shown relatively more acceptance for the marginalized sections of society. Here Raghav finally found what he was looking for- a free environment as a Krishna devotee, where his sexual orientation didn’t matter. His being gay was never frowned upon here.
However, he soon had to move back to Ahmedabad due to family compulsions. He joined the ISKCON temple in Ahmedabad, where his being gay is deliberately ignored, and never talked about. He became a member of GALVA (Gay and Lesbian Vaishnava Association), an informal online group of gay devotees at ISKCON started by Amara Das Wilhem, a devotee from the US. Through that he got in touch with his partner who’ll soon be moving over to Ahmedabad. Raghav admits that they’ll have to keep their relationship a secret from the temple, if they hope to continue being a part of the community. Gay marriage is a very contentious issue at ISKCON and rarely talked about, especially in India.
Amara Das has been an inspirational figure to many gay Vaishnavas like Jayesh. He has authored a book called “Tritiya Prakriti” that is one of its kind book on alternative sexuality and how it’s viewed by Hinduism. Hindu scriptures lack the virulent homophobia of the Bible or Koran, but at the same time give an ambiguous reference to homosexuality and trassexuality. On the one hand, all forms of sexuality are equally celebrated or shunned, on the other hand, there seems to be deliberate omission of LGBTs from the Vedic family structure. Amara Das enthusiastically discussed with me his life and his book-
Tell us something about yourself – your early days, how you came to be associated with ISKCON, and your coming out.
I joined ISKCON (The International Society for Krishna Consciousness, a Gaudiya Vaishnava religious organization) in 1974 while attending college at the University of Maryland, USA. I was only seventeen at the time but remarkably drawn to the group’s Vedic teachings and culture. I was already vegetarian and a deeply spiritual person. The entire process of Krishna consciousness fit like a glove; it was just as if I were continuing it from a previous lifetime. I came out to the devotees as gay a few months later. By that time I had established good relationships with everyone in the ashrama and no one seemed to mind. Factually speaking, all were friendly and supportive. In those days, it was well understood that anyone could join Krishna consciousness regardless of gender, race, class, sexual orientation, or whatever. I lived very happily in the ashrama and received both first and second initiation in 1976 from my guru, His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada. Srila Prabhupada had just established ISKCON ten years prior so the organization was still quite new and growing rapidly in both India and the West.
How was your coming out taken at ISKCON? Have you faced any harassment/discrimination within the community?
I experienced no overt discrimination as a young gay member in ISKCON and lived for many years as a well-behaved and serious monk. Discrimination did eventually manifest, however, in the form of exclusion from marriage and subsequent social alienation. In ISKCON, heterosexual members that can no longer maintain celibacy are typically given all support to find a suitable partner and marry. Gay devotees, on the other hand, are forced to continue celibacy beyond their means, establish an unnatural marriage with someone of the opposite sex, or leave the community altogether. In hindsight, such exclusion from marriage and the order of householder life (the grhastha-asrama) was an unnecessarily painful experience that kept me in celibacy way beyond anything I now consider healthy or even spiritually correct.
When and how did you come up with the idea of GALVA and writing the book “Tritiya Prakriti”?
In 1997 at the age of forty, after being appalled by some of the ignorant writings of my peers on the topic of homosexuality, I decided to research the topic fully and present my findings to other Vaishnavas and Hindus. The endeavor grew rapidly from my initial article in 2001 (the book’s first chapter) to a website, support e-group, the formation of GALVA (The Gay And Lesbian Vaishnava Association) and ultimately the Tritiya-Prakriti book, which was first published in 2003. I was genuinely surprised by all the positive feedback and support I quickly received from many of my fellow devotees—both gay and straight. The hateful backlashes I feared never materialized. Only a few rare and clearly uneducated comments were voiced against my new outreach program to the gay community. Silence and approval were the most common reactions, and I received countless “thank you” letters.
Your book talks about an extensive vocabulary regarding LGBTs, which is missing in any modern Indian language. How do you explain that?
While I am by no means expert in modern Indian language, there is certainly a vast difference between India’s ancient knowledge of gender variation and that of the present day. Most modern Indians are extremely ignorant in their understanding of homosexual orientation, transgender identity and intersex conditions so I suppose India’s contemporary language reflects that.
From your research, it seems like LGBT people in ancient India were treated as separate but equal. They were treated with indifference as long as they didn’t interfere with the more ‘routine’ heterosexual society.
In general, I try to avoid pinning any one particular view on ancient India regarding LGBT people. Most likely, as in all societies, different views were held according to realization, locale and time. Vatsyayana alludes to this in the Kama Sutra, wherein he mentions how various sexualities were condoned in some regions yet scorned in others. It is safe to say that ancient Indians understood LGBT conditions as inborn, natural and non-punitive but at the same time treated LGBT people favorably, indifferently, or unfavorably according to their own various realizations and tastes. The great Vaishnava king, Virata, for example, was kindly disposed toward the crossdresser Brihannala and valued her presence in his kingdom whereas a ritualistic priest may have looked down upon and sent her away. The former approach is considered ideal within civilized Vedic culture whereas the latter, although mundane, was also present to some degree. In my book I try to stress the positive examples as far as possible.
It also seems like LGBTs were actually considered lower to heterosexuals in the spiritual plane- such as Brahmins could not engage in homosexuality, they were barred from family inheritance, could not perform several religious rites and had to live in separate quarters in the cities. Also being born as a third gendered person was considered atonement for sexual sins in past lives.
The references you mention refer to the smriti-sastra or regulative codes followed by strict smarta-brahmanas (ritualistic priests). On the spiritual plane, however, people are viewed equally as spirit-soul and judged not by caste, birth, body-type, etc. but according to their individual character and behavior. Thus, in ideal Vedic culture any gay person of good character would be considered higher than a heterosexual of bad character. While it is true the smriti scriptures treat gays as ‘lower’ or ‘less favored’ in a few sparse codes, such regulative standards are easily discarded by Vaishnavas and Hindus with a higher spiritual outlook. The modern reformation of Hinduism is therefore an ongoing process fuelled by progressive spiritual vision. In regard to gays living in separate parts of the city, this was not a forced situation but rather a mostly natural one—just as we find today in modern metropolitan areas and among other ethnic/cultural subgroups. Concerning third-gender (LGBT) births as atonement for past sins (vikarma), this is true in some cases but not all. The majority of lesbian, gay, and bisexual persons take birth as third-gender according to their own particular kama or desire.
Why are the major scriptures like the Bhagavad Gita or the Vedas silent on homosexuals?
Scriptures such as the Bhagavad Gita, Upanisads, Vedas, etc. rarely mention gay people specifically (and other minority groups for that matter) because the topic at hand is purely spiritual and bodily differences are of little or no significance to these texts. Their truths and processes apply equally to all. In the Gita, for instance, Lord Krishna clearly states that He is equal to everyone (9.29) and that all people may take shelter of Him (9.32).
Vedic ‘marriage’ rites are very well defined between men and women. Even if one assumes that in a same-sex relationship one person can take the role of a man, and the other of a woman- it is not true for all gay couples, plus there’s too much labelling involved, and ultimately even gays are having to ‘fit in’ to heteronormative roles. So there seems to be no scope for a Vedic gay marriage.
Gay marriage is mentioned in the Kama Sutra (2.9.36) as follows: “There are also third-gender citizens, sometimes greatly attached to each other and with complete faith in one another, who get married together.” Eight different types of marriage are recognized in Vedic texts and even if there is a question regarding religious marriage, surely the gandharva or celestial type can be applied to gay couples. Indeed, the Baudhayana Dharmasutra (1.20.16) states: “Some commend the gandharva form of marriage for all, because it flows from love.” Vaishnava saint Bhaktivinoda Thakura similarly declares that all people have the right to practice Krishna consciousness and live as householders, even if they are outcastes. While same-sex marriage is currently controversial within ISKCON and Hinduism in general, some priests already accept the practice as a reasonable exception for people with homosexual orientation. Again, on the spiritual platform, it is the qualification of character that counts more than a person’s physical sex or body-type. Furthermore, same-sex couples need not mirror the traditional feminine bride and masculine groom scenario you mention (although some transgender couples may do this). Vedic marriage procedures are easily adaptable and can accommodate any type of couple. In most cases, the foremost challenge is finding a qualified and agreeable priest.
Among the pantheon of third gender gods you’ve mentioned, there seem to be no gay gods. Why is that?
The topic of intimate relations between Hindu deities is very confidential and not readily divulged. Such topics are for perfected devotees—those who have completely surrendered themselves heart and soul to one deity in particular. While it may sometimes be suggested that a certain deity is entirely heterosexual, bisexual, or even homosexual, this can never be known for sure. The gods themselves are not bound by ordinary rules nor limited to one expression or manifestation alone. What we can know for certain is that God is unlimitedly diverse and the material world reflects the spiritual—nothing exists in this world without some real counterpart in spiritual existence. Furthermore, it is likely that greater information about the gods was available in ancient days but lost over time or phased out due to India’s growing hostility toward LGBT people. Such a possibility is entirely plausible when we consider how the Kama Shastric writings about homosexual behavior were similarly almost lost and continue to be overlooked and omitted, even today.
What do you make of Sri Prabhupada’s statements on gay people?
Srila Prabhupada’s statements on homosexuality are typical for someone of his generation and reflect exactly the attitudes and beliefs held during the British Victorian Era. Personally, I prefer to focus on his higher spiritual teachings such as transcending bodily designations altogether and viewing everyone equally as spirit-soul. After all, I didn’t join Krishna consciousness to learn old-fashioned, non-Vedic ideas about homosexuality! Srila Prabhupada’s loving dealings with openly gay people such as Allen Ginsberg and his disciple Upendra dasa far exceed in lesson any admitted shortcomings in regard to his knowledge about the third sex (“I do not know exactly…”).
Why do you think modern day ISKCON is so homophobic? How is GALVA trying to change that? It took a lot of activism from within the Church of England to make it accepting of gay people. Is GALVA ready for that sort of pro-activeness within ISKCON?
After Srila Prabhupada’s passing in 1977 I’ve noticed within ISKCON a trend toward excessive conservatism and homophobia, at least within many circles. This trend is mostly due to the loss of Prabhupada’s pure-hearted guidance and Vaishnava example. Rather than seeing gay people as spirit-souls, many current leaders overfocus on sex and misuse Srila Prabhupada’s statements in a counterproductive fashion. Further troubling is the number of leaders that remain silent and allow such mistakes to occur. At the same time I must also say there have been positive examples of leadership and gay outreach from ISKCON authorities such as Bhakti Tirtha Swami, Hridayananda Goswami and other Gaudiya Vaishnava groups like those under the auspices of Tripurari Swami and Srila Narayana Maharaja. Such good examples give LGBT devotees refuge and hope for the future.
Is GALVA ready to help ISKCON become more accepting of gay people?
Yes, certainly, and we have been doing this one person at a time. But acceptance is not something you can force upon any organization. That must come through each person’s heart, one after the other, through education, sharing, friendship and love. Sometimes people foolishly assume that GALVA’s purpose is to promote sex but that is not true at all. Our purpose is to neither eliminate nor change essential spiritual principles but rather to make them equally available for everyone. The days of creating outcastes are over and the long, golden arms of Lord Gauranga have come to embrace the world!
In closing, I would like to encourage all your readers to pursue their spiritual interests to the fullest. Do not become disillusioned or discouraged by anti-gay religious leaders and priests…such mean-spirited people would only be all too happy with that outcome. There are many gay-friendly devotees and spiritual guides to help you in your quest, so please seek them out and reclaim your spiritual heritage. LGBT involvement in the religious and spiritual spheres will play a very important role in promoting the favorable, permanent change we need to see in both India and Hinduism itself.
Men like Raghav and Amara Das are slowly, but definitely changing one of the most influential Hindu movements of all times. How their battle turns out will have a bearing on the lives of all those who’re struggling to reconcile their faith with their sexuality, and more importantly, test the inclusiveness and tolerance of the world’s most ancient religion.




Very well done article, Udayan. I really like the way you presented Jayesh’s story, too. Thanks so much…you are doing a wonderful service for India’s LGBT community and, frankly, India as a whole!
Nice article!
Amara prabhu has been doing a wonderful service for all LGBT vaishnavas around the world, and you can see it already affecting positively lots of people acceptance towards LGBT devotees, including within ISKCON.
The point is that LGBT acceptance and respect is a very indivudual thing, so you’ll find different people at different ISKCON centers with sometimes opposing stands on the matter. But I believe ISKCON is steadily advancing, as a whole, to a more inclusive institution all over the planet. We just have to keep doing our part!
A very nice article. Amara prabhu is doing a most wonderful job for so many third gendered devotees (and their friends and families) all over the world.
Wow, very nice article. Your group is doing a very important job within ISKCON. I do not understand how ISKCON got so crazy conservative. Prabhupada was so accepting of anyone truly interested in serving. Krishna.
Thank you very much for this inspiring and informative article and congratulations to Pink Pages!
As an openly gay sannyasi disciple of Srila Bhaktivedanta Narayana Goswami I meet LGBT devotees and people around the world. One thing that I find universally true for all people is the obvious difference between what is ordinary mundane religion and what is actually spiritual. Mundane or worldly religion treats people favourably or dis-favourably according to bodily designations – one’s birth. While a truly spiritual perspective sees the individual as an eternal spiritual being with an eternal identity in relationship to the Lord and does not see any material condition which can change that reality.
True there is much education still needed on all levels; not just with regard to LGBT inclusiveness, and Amara Prabhu and Jayesh Prabhu are admirable teachers who are making a real difference in this regard. Ignorance is the basic cause of all sectarianism and offences to others and thus is the main root cause for delays in spiritual realization.
I would be very happy to meet and/or correspond with any LGBT persons who would like to work together to educate all people. I will be in the wonderful company of many GALVA devotees in the holy dhama of Vrindavan this Kartika month (22 October to 21 November) and would be happy to all. My email is: bvvaisnava@yahoo.co.uk
Thank you again to Pink Pages for this honest and most welcome article revealing the natural inclination for spiritual life amongst all LGBT people.
Vaisnava dasanudas,
BV Vaisnava Maharaja
Your statement; as an openly gay sannyasi is insane at most; foolish at best. Number one: a sannyasi is free from sex life. Number two: a sannyasi is fully surrendered to Lord Krsna and views the body for what it is ..a bag of stool; pus; urine. A Sannyasi does not view other peoples bodies as objects of pleasure. A Sannyasi does not drink the vomit of sex life. So from your comments I can see that you are not a Sannyasi.
Radhe Radhe! Wonderful article! I can’t express what a positive support Amaraji and GALVA have been to me over the years. Like any family we have our moments, but I am so thankful for the GALVA Satsangha. Hopefully the wonderful work that they are doing in the Gaudiya denomination can be extended to other conservative branches of the great wish-fulfilling tree called Sanathana Dharma. The Eternal Truth is for all people, for all time. It is time that we recognize this and free it from narrow class-ism, sectarianism, and ethnic exclusivity. Jai Ram!
a really good and thought provoking article
wow! what an article. Udayan! love you for this.
As always, such a nice explanation by Amara prabhu! Thanks Udayan!
Very nice article Udayan. Armara das has a wonderful way of bridging the “differences” between gay and straight devotees. As well as maintaining the GALVA website. He is very encouraging and understanding. I have to admit to having much less patience for homophobia than he and others in the group, but am happy to have found GALVA, in addition to having the association of the Gay, Lesbian, and Transgendered devotees throughout the US, India, and Europe, from which I have learned much.
Although Jayesh has had a very difficult time of it, he continues to have a very positive outlook as well, they are both good examples of the all inclusive nature of Lord Caitanya’s teachings:
“One who is humbler than a blade of grass, more forbearing than a tree who gives due honour to others without desiring honour for himself is qualified to always chant the Holy Name of Krishna.” Sikastakam, verse 3
Beautiful article. I really enjoyed it. Amara Das’ writings have really helped me a lot, as a bisexual (mostly gay)/genderqueer aspiring Vaisnava who never felt like I fit in… to the point that I felt discouraged to even practice Krishna Consciousness. I tried to get married so I would “do the right thing” and that did not work out. I was really brainwashed and I am glad now that I can accept myself as third gender AND still be practicing Krishna Consciousness. I am finding also that more and more gay devotees are coming out now and this is so refreshing. Sometimes I do experience some negative attitudes or even quite condescending moods… ie “you haven’t met the right man yet, etc” but I try to just focus on what is important… serving Krishna’s devotees and my family.
We can’t look at someone and know their relationship to Krishna. I believe Krishna put so many different kinds of people on this earth so we could learn not to judge others, and try to treat all people equally.
Again, thanks.
Udayan, jayesh, and dear Amara dasa,
It was so good to read this article: i don’t recall ever having read one like this in any gay periodical. it spoke to me on different levels in a way that was, at last, meaningful and real.
Thanks for the effort, Udayan and Jayesh. Please accept my heartfelt appreciation. To be gay/bi is to struggle for understanding, from others, from oneself. And dear Amara prabhu, you understand the Vaishnava creed so well, apply it to challenging situations so consistently, and take recourse to such a remarkable and fecund intuition, I suspect your study of Vaishnava scripture and Hinduism dovetailed into your understanding of the human condition a loo oo oong time ago!
i think i can safely say that i like the article very much and will be so glad to read more like these. Kudos to you and all such scholars who toil for those challenged by faith and orientation over and over.
Hare Krishna!
uttam
Thank you very much Amara Prabhu for all your dedication, sacrifice and indefatigable enthusiasm to reach out to the devotee gay community, who were facing numerous problems. Indeed, its the arrangement of Lord Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu to put an end to the discrimination and harassment of the minority devotees and provide them love and support.
Amara prabhu ki Jai!!!
GALVA ki Jai!!!
Gaura-bhakta-vrinda ki Jai!!!
this is a very nice article. Keep up doing the nice job
Thank you so much for this thought provoking article. I am very happy that there is more and more publicity concerning third gender issues and Vaishnava Dharma. This Vaishnavism is so sweet, so precious, and so divine, that to have it eclipsed by the prejudices of external society would be retrogressive and counterproductive to the loving devotional practices of Krishna bhakti.
May all beings benefit from the non-sectarian, non-dogmatic, all-auspicious movement of the Gaudiya Vaishnava Dharma!
Dandavats,
Kevin.
What a powerful article! I just wanted to thank you, because your efforts with GALVA have contributed greatly to my own growth and development into a more loving and accepting person. I have come to understand that my previous homophobia was borne of prejudice, ignorance and insecurity. Keep up this wonderful service, prabhu. Lives CAN and DO change!
Mahalo, Bhakta Rudra
Thank you for an informative article. I agree that among at least some of the ISKCON leadership there seems to be a drift towards homophobia since the departure of Srila Prabhupada.
The examples mentioned of Ginsberg and of Upendra prabhu are germane. Allen Ginsberg and his lover Peter Orlovsky visited the ISKCON temple in Montréal in 1968; Prabhupada greeted them both warmly and asked Ginsberg to lead kirtan with his portable harmonium. Further, he asked Ginsberg to chant Hare Krishna at every poetry reading or public meeting he gave — a request which Ginsberg honoured out of his great respect for Prabhupada. They also visited the Vancouver temple in March of the following year and led a rousing kirtan at the Sunday love feast.
Upendra prabhu was a good friend of mine who had held some kirtans on Second Beach in Vancouver in the summer of 1968 but ultimately decided to establish a temple in Seattle instead. During the time that I was trying to establish a Vancouver temple in 1968 and 1969, I often took the Greyhound bus to Seattle to benefit from his association, to purchase books and magazines for distribution in Vancouver and to pick up hints on running effective classes and Sunday feast programs. I always thought of Upendra das as being a wise, empathetic and inspirational devotee leader. Before reading this article I had not known that he had been gay, but my friendship with him would not have changed had he told me. To me, his warmth, his kindness to all and his obvious spiritual understanding were all that mattered. He had truly internalized the devotional philosophy and was a realized bhakta of the first order.
Sadly, I have also known many closeted gay devotees — some of them in positions of great power over other devotees as sannyasis or supposed gurus — who made assiduous efforts to mask their orientation under a public show of celibacy. Many of these turned their private attraction for men into a public repugnance for women, and because they held positions of power, their misogyny greatly hurt ISKCON in ways that the movement is still recovering from. A hypocrite should not have been allowed to assume responsibility for the care of disciples, but many of them did so. Thankfully, many of these dacoits have now utterly left the movement they did so much to harm; unfortunately, a few such men still hold positions of temporal and spiritual authority and are still able to harm devotees in their care.
Sri sri guru-gauranga jayatah.
Ananda das
“When Jayesh first came out to his family at age 17, he was promptly taken to Dr. Mrugesh Vaishnav, a prominent psychiatrist in Mumbai. There he was given shock therapy to his genitals,”
I bet that Dr. really got a kick out of this. Great article!! Two thumbs up!
Be great to see India and the Vaisnavas in some circles change their attitudes to Gay Vaisnavas, this kind of education can only go to help that. I know by karma we are destined to be this way, but in terms of this life, I don’t remember asking for it. Made it difficult to grow up, hiding from parents and school, the taboo subject.
Hoping this also leads to a more spiritualisation of the ‘gay’ scene and people don’t see us as an easy buck.
Great Work and All Glories to Sri Sri Gurudev and Gauranga. Hare Krsna………
Yes, indeed, Amara Prabhu’s work on behalf of 3rd-gendered devotees is amazing! I highly recommend his book and his association. Without Galva, I think I would have gotten discouraged in my spiritual life. Thank you Amaraji!
This is very intersting. 1st time i heard about this. I am gay but serving Krishna and other vaishnavas. Can GALVA help me in this regard?. I desperately need a guidence.
Hare Krishna.Many thanks for Your article.I just wanted to clarify few points,Actually gandharva marriage is not at all recommended in Kali yuga either for hetero or homosexuals.If the homosexual devotee feels emotional need to live with a partner,still he has to keep celibacy.Otherwise any sexual activity will be considered illicit as there is no question of procreation.So the relationship should be based on emotial exchanges and not on sexual relationship.I think there is no need for marriage for the homosexual devotees.Many thanks for the understanding.
I just want to say thank you to Amara Das for bringing back my religion and spiritual believe in me. I am so happy to discover GALVA………Now there’s hope! Thank you.
It is nice to see such nice devotees helping to fight this horrible stigma. We all have a right to worship God.
Hi
I am all for inclusion, however the basis of this public cry for inclusion is flawed by the fact there is no worthy insititution to be included in within Iskcon!! as this institution has no body or core to measure up to anyway!! Lets hope it develops ones again by dint of all of use recreating it moment by moment in the name of Srila Prabhupad…so that those despearately wanting to be accepted is not so farcical. I am a single parent and I cd cry a double volume book about not being accepted into Isckon and have considered it , but I realize that the crux of Srila Prabhpads message is to become self realised and thats not happening in the temples or institutional consciousness..its happening at home in our four walls privately and deeply with my kid leading kirtans and many more preme coming!!
I have noticed the gay issue goes hand in hand with ‘being noticed’. There is another issue here afoot which is ;proper understanding of our sexuality and this has so far been omitted in Iskcon due to inadequate leadership. I have been most fortunate to have met a bonafide (pro Prabhupad!) guru 13 yrs ago who did teach this rare and elevated teaching…I see this as the missing link and whilst this teaching is not out there, this, like other issues will conflagrate and continue to create disturbance from our true focus…we are not male nor female, old nor young american or hindu etc.or gay or straight for that matter!!lol!..we are sprirt soul and we need proper guidance on consecrating everything including our sexuality to Krisna…not supressing it or considering it ‘outside’ of our devotional activity.
Please contact me if you want guidance with this knowledge I have been given.
Yours in search of increasing awareness in Krisna consciousness,
jaya Srila Prabhupad!
Jasoda
There are 4 pillars of sinful activity as you all well know…in my humble opinion…being “gay” plays a close 2nd to killing cows. Yes, even the cow killers have a right to worship God…but I’m pretty sure that the good Lord above would prefer we all get around to following the regulative principles along with dancing and singing the holy names. Jai Radhe.
@bhaktahames,
“in my humble opinion…being “gay” plays a close 2nd to killing cows.”
Can you please cite any scripture,etc to back that statement up?
So, ISKCON kicks out all of the Prabhupadanugas and people who just want to surrender to Prabhupada, but they welcome all kinds of riff-raff, homosexuals, criminals, pedophiles, drug addicts, schizophrenics, murderers, etc.
Who the hell would want to join ISKCON at this stage? They are attracting some of the lowest class people in the world, and kicking out some of the most sincere people in the world (people who just want to surrender to Srila Prabhupada).
“ISKCON gurus have opposed, oppressed, and driven out many sincere Godbrothers and Godsisters.”
-Jayadvaita Swami
I don’t get it? Sincere and serious devotees are not welcome, but child molesters and criminals ARE?
This is the madness and hypocrisy of ISKCON’s criminal leadership. They promote and protect pedophiles like Bhavananda, and kick out those who don’t agree to worship their pedophile gurus?
The only conclusion one can come to is that ISKCON’s leaders like Jayapataka, Tamal, and Radhanath are some of the greatest cheateres and criminals in the universe. They are claiming to be pure devotees, but in reality they are just a bunch of low class scumbag criminals.
People who knowingly promote homosexual pedophile child molesters are themselves criminals as well.
“…one who is mischievous, he is culprit. But one who tolerates mischievous activity, he is also culprit. If you are mischievous, you are criminal. But if you tolerate mischievous activities that is also criminal. ”
-Srila Prabhupada, May 3, 1973, Los Angeles
Srila Prabhupada is the real guru who should be worshipped, not these stupdi pedophiles and homosexual bogus gurus.
Homosexual pedophile gurus and their supporters are going to the darkest regions of hell after their “guru business” is finished:
“These rogues are the most dangerous elements in human society. Because there is no religious government, they escape punishment by the law of the state. They cannot, however, escape the law of the Supreme, who has clearly declared in Bhagavad gita (16.19-20) that envious demons in the garb of religious propagandists shall be thrown into the darkest regions of hell. Sri Isopanisad confirms that these pseudo religionists are heading toward the most obnoxious place in the universe after the completion of their spiritual master business, which they conduct simply for sense gratification.”
-Srila Prabhupada, Sri Isopanisad, mantra 12, purport
Unless people can transcend both hetero and homosexual tendencies and become truly omnisexual, they are destined to suffer more and more. If the males cannot retain their semen, they will lose power and only suffer. This is the truth that no one wants to hear. Spiritual life will elude those who are intent upon any form of material enjoyment.
Amara you are not disciple of HDG Srila Prabhupada.If you were you would not be into glorification of this stool pushing business.Why don’t you,like the rest of us,endure onslaughts of lust desire and pray to Krishna to enable you to follow the principles some day.This taste for anal sex that you are cultivating and showing proudly to the world is not good basis for decent association.I think that you are doing this because of your insatiable desire for fame and adoration by your gay brothers.Shame on you.You should be shunned.
This shameless gay parade should be stopped.You Amara are a rascal of worst kind.Your ridiculous movement would be equivalent to the movements such as “straight grihastas association for anal sex” or “old pervert sanyasi association for sex with children” .
You are either a vaishnav or a person that is aspiring to be one.You either follow the principles or you are doing your best and praying hard to come to that stage.
For one seriously interested in advancing in spiritual consciousness there is no need to identify with or associate with one whose sexuality is on the forefront on his consciousness.It can only be degrading and detrimental for ones spiritual progress.
If I as a straight married male start identifying with my desire for sex with the ladies and I form equivalent organization in order to attract all the sexually deprived men and women,will that help me in any way except to get laid more often and increase my sex desire?
Why not be humble and admit that you are a lusty pig like most of us and don’t be so darn proud of your bizarre,grotesque,filthy animal propensity.
Keep your genitalia in control you fool.Find a nice boy and hide in shame if you really can’t live without the scent of stool and man’s sweat.Stop misleading others into thinking that digging stool out of someone’s butt is a goal of life.
Shame on you twice.Rascal.
I suspect that a number of the last anti gay tirades above are all coming from the same person. It is probable that this person is the same individual who runs a web site dedicated to the hatred and slander of other Vaishnavas. He continually attacks both straight and gay devotees in an onslaught of apparadha or offense, so please do not take him seriously.
Amara, this was a very nice article which was very enlightening to me as a “straight” person. Thank you.
Lustypigdas:please control your words when you refer to vaishnava. It doesn’t matter if these devotees are gay or else they are worshiping our Lord Krishna and having faith in Srila Prabhupada. No vaishnava should be ill-judged for the body is in. There are not “better” residents in this prison.
Corey : please list the many devotees in Iskcon who are there serving the other devotees and strictly following the principles and chanting Hare Krishna. Those who talks like you are just faultfinders and fingerpointers and always nourishing the same diatribe which is offensive to all those vaishnava who are in Iskcon faithfully and silently serving Srila Prabhupada lotus feet. Statements as such made in your message are harmful only to the spiritual life of those uttering them and to them only. Srila Prabhupada would not have listen at them not even for half second. So we should avoid even reading them.
Very nice interview Amara! Just give me the comments on the following.
I had difficultly with this video where Prabhupada criticizes Christians priests for sanctioning gay marriages. He criticises so severely. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_7kCcxNQg3Q
I really did not like the video.
I was reading a recent article by a trained researcher who happened to be a gay activist.
http://www.christiantelegraph.com/issue9735.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luiz_Mott
His ideas have made me consider that sexual orientation can be to some extent fluid, especially because a gay person with credible academic background says so. In one sense, it is good that there is some “free will” for the person in choosing their orientation and it is not completely deterministic.
Obviously these are complex issues, which cannot be answered easily and I don’t know if there is an absolutely right view to deal with this issue. It is somewhat similar to abortion.
One of my good friend Puneet who is homosexual and is pretty balanced did his research on Hindu scriptures and found out a few references where homosexuals will have to be confined to a lower status in society. He asked for your opinion on this matter.
“Foolish and evil men engage in all forms of sexual intercourse without a female womb, forcing themselves upon other men. They are born again without their organs as neuters.” (Mahabharata 13.145.52)
Then he sent this article
http://www.glbtq.com/social-sciences/hinduism.htm…
Most of the quotes here from the Kama Sutra condemn or chide oral and anal sex and my friend Puneet thinks there is some ground for modern day yogic masters who don’t want their disciples to engage in oral and anal sex to discourage homosexual union, which is physical.
Vatsyayana notes: “According to the Acharya, the masters of learning, this practice is not recommended. It is contrary to sound morals and is not a civilized practice. One is defiled by the contact of the sex with the face” (2.9.26).
Vatsyayana (2.9.40) advises that high-caste Brahmans (priests), educated men, government officials, and famous persons should avoid oral sex. The commentary notes that such a prohibition was not absolute, however. Vatsyayana observes that youthful servants sometimes performed oral sex on “other men” (2.9.35).
Dear Vivek,
Hare Krishna! Here are my comments:
As mentioned earlier, Srila Prabhupada strongly condemned homosexuality as was typically done by any man raised during the early twentieth century. However, if we study his actual dealings with homosexual friends and disciples we see he was actually quite flexible and loving. It is said that “actions speak louder than words” and I believe that is the case here with Srila Prabhupada.
In regard to sexual orientation being fluid, only bisexuality is mutable in the sense that it can switch back and forth and change focus from one sexual preference to the other. People often mistake bisexuality for changed sexual orientation but sexual orientation–even bisexuality–is biologically set during fetal development in the womb (in the first two months). This is stated in the Hindu scriptures and alluded to by modern science.
However, one’s sexual orientation can certainly be changed from lifetime to lifetime, according to one’s desires (kama) and deeds (karma).
As mentioned in my article, homosexual acts and homosexual people in general are considered “lower” in nature by ritualistic (smarta) brahmanas and texts, but these bodily considerations are easily dismissed by spiritualists with higher criterion. For instance, is a man heterosexually raping a woman higher than a loving, committed gay couple? Or is a heterosexual murderer higher than a celibate gay man simply by dint of his being straight? Of course not! Obviously a person’s heart and character must be considered foremost over mere body-type and these are the higher teachings of our scriptures.
Dear Amara prabhu,
Hare Krsna. Please accept my humble obeisances.All glories to Srila Prabhupada .
I just wanted to say that I very much support your ongoing efforts to support the worldwide Gay and Lesbian Vaisnava community . All jivas should be welcomed to serve Krsna and Mahaprabhu . According to Srimad Bhagavatam genuine sadhus are also suhrtam sarva dehinam , truly friendly to all embodied beings. Especially this is true of the devotees of Mahaprabhu who warmly welcomed those who were socially or official considered of lower status. I am sad that homophobia , or general immaturity about gender issues , still exists in the vaisnava world , and am especially pained that persons such as yourself should be publicly derided . Please don’t take heed of it , and please do continue your sometimes thankless but very important work of making the mercy of Gaura and Krsna available to one and all , as They very much want . I would also like to similarly applaud the courage of Jayesh prabhu and other who are not known to me for their similar often unthanked efforts in the same regard . I hope that you all are fully blessed by Guru and Krsna always . Hare Krsna .
Your lowly servant,
Isha prakash das.
Hawaii
26 May, 1975
75-05-26
My Dear Lalitananda dasa,
Please accept my blessings. I am in due receipt of your letter dated May 13rd, 1975 and have noted the contents. I am very sorry that you have taken to homosex. It will not help you advance in your attempt for spiritual life. In fact, it will only hamper your advancement. I do not know why you have taken to such abominable activities. What can I say? Anyway, try to render whatever service you can to Krishna. Even though you are in a very degraded condition Krishna, being pleased with your service attitude, can pick you up from your fallen state. You should stop this homosex immediately. It is illicit sex, otherwise, your chances of advancing in spiritual life are nil. Show Krishna you are serious, if you are.
I hope this meets you in good health.
Your ever well-wisher,
A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami
Amara,you got some balls to put yourself in the position of leadership of the blind.It is perfect blind leading the blind scenario.the only thing you may not like is that you will also have to take some of the sinful karma of the unfortunate people that are following you.
“Leaders who have fallen into ignorance and who mislead people by directing them to the path of destruction [as described in the previous verse] are, in effect, boarding a stone boat, and so too are those who blindly follow them. A stone boat would be unable to float and would sink in the water with its passengers. Similarly, those who mislead people go to hell, and their followers go with them.”
(Srila Prabhupada Letter, December 14th, 1972)
Lets examine your case, Amara das.You admitted to not being able to follow the regulative principles.That puts you in the mode of ignorance category clearly.As such you have taken it upon yourself to lead your similarly afflicted brethren.Good luck in your journey on your stone boat.
I just hope that your followers take heed of Srila Prabhupada’s words before they sink with you.
@ Amara, Jayesh,
I am not religious, but in the course of interacting with you people for writing this article I realized how less a role one’s sexual orientation plays in the spiritual path. You might as well be straight, it makes no difference as long as you follow what you believe in.
Also, reading Amara’s book was such an enriching experience. I had no idea about the way our ancient religion and culture embrace even those who dare to stray from the beaten track. It respects and celebrates differences, and doesn’t make it an excuse for spreading bigotry and hate. That’s the most amazing thing about Hinduism.
And to those who’re criticizing Amara’s work, they should realize that the God they claim to serve made us all, the way we are. He made people straight just the way He made the others gay. Thus, to criticize an aspect of God’s creation is to criticize God Himself.
In any case, how is a gay devotee who becomes celibate different from a straight one? Please remember that becoming celibate doesn’t mean becoming asexual, it only means controlling our sexual desires, irrespective of which gender it’s directed towards.
I sincerely hope that ISKCON and other Hindu religious bodies do not continue to met out such distressing experiences to the faithful who happen to be gay for too long. I wish Amara and Jayesh all the best in their efforts!
Amara D a s Wilhelm’s book &articles all are very informative as well as guide posts for the new entrants.This has nothing abusive or against Vaishnavvic/ite remarks/culture/GALVA 108/ISCON.
wonderful and amazing i am proud of you amara and all my godbrothers who stand against any kind of hate and ignorance such a beautiful movement its true Prabhupada built a house for the whole world to live in .. lets stop the hate and start loving one another as krishna loves us as prabhupada loves us as we are.
kindness compasion these are the true qualities of a devotee prabhupada taught us this now lets live his example .
lets go home back to godhead ..
Jaya Sri Krishna Chaitanya Prabhu Nithyananda Sri Advaita Gadadhara Shrivasadi Gaura Bhakta Vrnda
Hare Krsna
I read this whole article and the dialogs between everybody also..
“Srila Prabhupada’s statements on homosexuality are typical for someone of his generation and reflect exactly the attitudes and beliefs held during the British Victorian Era. Personally, I prefer to focus on his higher spiritual teachings such as transcending bodily designations altogether and viewing everyone equally as spirit-soul. ”
In my opinion Amara is way out of line according to Prabhupada’s wishes.. It’s disturbing that you focus on your sexual orientation to such a degree.. and I agree with someone who said here that you are an attention whore.. (paraphrasing) It’s also disturbing that you seem to write Prabhupada’s logic off as some passing “Victorian/Industrial Age” nonsense with no bearing to our “modern times”.. Prabhupada was not the body that appears to be the beautiful old bald Indian man, Prabhupada was an ancient soul of immense proportion. His wisdom was not the fleeting feelings of an old stuffy conservative fogey as you seem to be intimating. But, since as someone else has wisely pointed out, you appear to have been taken by the modes of passion and ignorance, disguised as goodness, you look at Prabhupada and see an old Indian man with flawed logic. His reason was based on Shastra, his knowledge extends back countless aeons of service to Krishna.
I agree also with what someone else has said, that it shouldn’t matter as long as you renounce sex and pleasure seeking from another material body, and seek your pleasure in the infinite ecstatic omnisexual union with the Divine Radha-Krishna, then you will enter into a state of utter Spiritual fulfillment and rapture, and nobody will be asking if you are gay or straight or like to have sex with chickens. You would be fulfilled and beyond these earthly designations.
I think I will copy paste Prabhupada’s letter just one more time to make it utterly clear of his attitude towards this topic.
“My Dear Lalitananda dasa,
Please accept my blessings. I am in due receipt of your letter dated May 13rd, 1975 and have noted the contents. I am very sorry that you have taken to homosex. It will not help you advance in your attempt for spiritual life. In fact, it will only hamper your advancement. I do not know why you have taken to such abominable activities. What can I say? Anyway, try to render whatever service you can to Krishna. Even though you are in a very degraded condition Krishna, being pleased with your service attitude, can pick you up from your fallen state. You should stop this homosex immediately. It is illicit sex, otherwise, your chances of advancing in spiritual life are nil. Show Krishna you are serious, if you are.
I hope this meets you in good health.
Your ever well-wisher,
A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami”
The fact that so many people have become dull and devoid of discernment is disturbing. It’s an effect of our wishy washy huggy feely culture which has been so utterly ruined by the demoniac rulers of this age of Kali.
Renounce all sex, homosex or otherwise, that is not for producing a baby. Renounce marriage, with anything that does not have 4 arms and carry a discus, lotus, conch shell, and mace.
Jaya Sri Krishna Chaitanya Prabhu Nithyananda Sri Advaita Gadadhara Shrivasadi Gaura Bhakta Vrnda
Hare Krsna
Pranava Prabhu
http://www.nifkcon.ning.com
“First of all, the conditioned soul is cheated by so-called svamis, yogis and incarnations when he approaches them to be relieved of material miseries. When the conditioned soul is not satisfied with them, he comes to devotees and pure brahmanas who try to elevate him for final liberation from material bondage.
However, the unscrupulous conditioned soul cannot rigidly follow the principles prohibiting illicit sex. intoxication, gambling and meat-eating. Thus he falls down and takes shelter of people who are like monkeys. In the Krsna
consciousness movement these monkey disciples, being unable to follow the strict regulative principles, sometimes fall down and try to form societies based on sex. This is proof that such people are descendants of monkeys, as confirmed by
Darwin. In this verse it is therefore clearly stated: yatha vanara-jateh.”
If you were serious you wouldn’t be fussing about your own personal needs and wants (having a gay partner, or any partner for that matter), if you aren’t serious then there’s no need to be considering Shastra or vows of Sannyas in the first place.
We live in a dark corrupted planet where there is endless suffering and starving children devoid of Love of God who need our help desperately and we are sitting here bickering about gay sex.
‘In all reference and discussions that Srila Prabhupada had on homosexuality, he never once suggested allowing same-sex relationships or marriages and especially after initiation. Maharaja has quoted Prabhupada on the first part of this sentence to his purport of 3:20:26, “It appears here that the homosexual appetite of males for each other is created in this episode of the creation of the demons by Brahma.” However, this is incomplete. The second part of Prabhupada’s sentence is: “the homosexual appetite of a man for another man is demonic and is not for any sane male in the ordinary course of life.”‘ – Krishna.org
Being born as gay is not the problem..but acting on it is surely a problem. Even the heterosexual couples are not allowed to have illicit sex (sex other than begetting Krishna conscious child)..so there is no point in talking about gay marriage..because gay sex is always illicit and unnatural. Discrimination is condemned, but if someone calls himself as vaishnava and wants to have homosexual relations..then he has not understood the basic four regulative principles itself. Even if someone talks about platonic relationship..its very difficult if not unrealistic.
I still feel ISKCON should do something about accepting and clarifying the codes for LGBT devotees.
I myself is gay and out to my fellow devotees and counselors.